THREE YEARS LATER
Oct. 3rd, 2010 08:37 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
barbecued
My thoughts on Grindeldore, let me show you them
1. Right, about three years late but I got into GrindelwaldxDumbledore. It being revealed as OMG!canon brought it to my attention but I wasn't too interested at first, since I thought of it as just Dumbledore having an unsaid crush. Which isn't too much to go on, and was too sad/tragic to really think about and/or expand on. But with the DH movie coming out, I got curious and found this little bit of JKR talking about Grindelwald, and she describes him as a narcissist and manipulator who would've used the crush. Omg, he KNEW about Dumbledore's feelings AND used them to keep/convince Dumbledore with him (and possibly liked the attention?). Now, all of a sudden this slashy relationship seems a lot more plausible. And HOT.
2. I've seen people talk about whether Grindelwald loved Dumbledore or not (which I think he did but didn't realize it until Nurmengard wait NOW I'M NOT SURE maybe it was just strong affection??), but I haven't seen discussion on how Dumbledore later feels about him. I mean, I've seen a lot of fic where he's still in love with him for years after, but I'm like, "Really? After the way he bolted when Ariana died??" I guess it might be a bittersweet feeling kinda thing, and he might still care? Or not? Was there just shame and guilt? Or even shame and guilt because he still had feelings for him? He said he feared dueling Grindelwald because he might've known who really killed Ariana but was there anything else he felt about him? Maybe not quite hate, but I dunno.
3. I like Grindeldore but oddly Dumbledore having a relationship with Elphias grosses me out. Which is weird because usually I'm all over the Victorious Childhood Friend trope (ex. RenjixRukia is my Bleach otp), but this pairing is so unequal and unbalanced. I see it as completely one-sided, and the idea of Dumbledore just going along with it depresses me. *side-eyes Remus* Also, I see young Elphias as sort of like jam!Watson. Also also, I like the idea of Grindelwald being Dumbledore's first. Cuz it's HOT. Sexual discovery and manipulation courtesy of Grindelwald~!
4. Strangest of all, I don't see it at all in the book itself. Dumbledore being gay and in love with Grindelwald didn't surprise me (sort of like a *blink* "oh yeah" moment), but even after re-reading the chapters, I just see an intense 2-month friendship, or something like what Ron and Harry have. Where did other people see something more implied? Cause if that's canon subtext then my GOD, how many other subtexty things were done on purpose? I guess most people meant it in a *winkwink* kind of way, but honestly, only reading the book, there's nothing that really says, "MORE THAN JUST FRIENDS, YOU GUYS." What the hell is wrong with me, my slash goggles are broken! Well, I guess it would be just a logical leap to explain how Dumbledore was completely blinded towards his friend, like Jo said.
5. Jo says Grindelwald was just as dazzled (lol) by Dumbledore as he was by him, and must have figured world domination would go a lot smoother if they were a team. And he certainly must have wanted to keep someone as powerful as Dumbledore as an ally than an enemy. And those are very pragmatic reasons to keep Dumbledore with him, but was there anything else? I think Grindelwald at least enjoyed his company but did he care about him? Before the stuff with Aberforth happened, was he planning to rule together, spend his life with Dumbledore? Or was he planning to keep on using him and then dump him when their plan succeeded and he didn't want to share the power? Of course, it's obvious what I'd want the answer to be (hint: the sappier one), but this is all just fanon interpretation. I doubt even Jo knows the answer. The way she talked about Grindelwald up there sounded like she hadn't completely figured it out yet either.
6. Why exactly did Grindelwald run when Ariana died? I think it's obvious it was a reaction out of fear and panic. That was the first death caused by him. After all, he didn't actually kill anyone at Durmstrang, though I'm sure he came close. Maybe he freaked out when faced with a real death, certainly a death he hadn't meant to cause. But I think that's just part of it. Aberforth said he didn't want to be connected to the death, the "first victim for the greater good." But Ariana's death could've been and was written off as an accident to the general public, so I doubt he was afraid of being sentenced for it. So maybe he also feared Albus's reaction! After this, he absolutely lost Albus's trust. First, crucio-ing Aberforth, then attacking both brothers in the three-way duel, Ariana's death would've been the last nail in their relationship. He didn't want to face him, and so ran before Albus could react! ohoho *adjusts shipper glasses*
7. Now who's worse, Grindelwald or Voldemort? Both megalomaniacs aiming to rule the wizarding world with a prejudice against muggles. But while Voldemort wanted to kill all muggles, Grindelwald wanted to enslave all muggles. Not much of a difference. Well, at least Grindelwald didn't seem to hold anything against muggleborns. To him, if you had magic, that meant automatic superiority, an actual "magic is might". It was only ignorant muggles he seemed to fear. With Voldemort, having any muggle blood in you meant you were tainted, no matter what. Also, I don't think Nurmengard had dementors at least. Of course, it probably had some kind of horrible torture or hard labor instead.
later: Okay, reading it again, there's actually nothing about how he felt about muggleborns period, so who knows how he would've treated them. They could've been second-class citizens or maybe they would've been taken at infancy like Jedi and given to a wizarding family or orphanage.
/end worddump
later: wait, were Grindelwald and Aberforth the same age?? Aberforth must have been 2 years younger than Albus if he started at Hogwarts when Albus was in third year.
Wait, if Grindelwald's birthday was in the summer, he might have been in his 6th year when he was expelled. Otherwise, he would've been in 5th year like Aberforthaksdjskl;hfasOH GOD
1. Right, about three years late but I got into GrindelwaldxDumbledore. It being revealed as OMG!canon brought it to my attention but I wasn't too interested at first, since I thought of it as just Dumbledore having an unsaid crush. Which isn't too much to go on, and was too sad/tragic to really think about and/or expand on. But with the DH movie coming out, I got curious and found this little bit of JKR talking about Grindelwald, and she describes him as a narcissist and manipulator who would've used the crush. Omg, he KNEW about Dumbledore's feelings AND used them to keep/convince Dumbledore with him (and possibly liked the attention?). Now, all of a sudden this slashy relationship seems a lot more plausible. And HOT.
2. I've seen people talk about whether Grindelwald loved Dumbledore or not (
3. I like Grindeldore but oddly Dumbledore having a relationship with Elphias grosses me out. Which is weird because usually I'm all over the Victorious Childhood Friend trope (ex. RenjixRukia is my Bleach otp), but this pairing is so unequal and unbalanced. I see it as completely one-sided, and the idea of Dumbledore just going along with it depresses me. *side-eyes Remus* Also, I see young Elphias as sort of like jam!Watson. Also also, I like the idea of Grindelwald being Dumbledore's first. Cuz it's HOT. Sexual discovery and manipulation courtesy of Grindelwald~!
4. Strangest of all, I don't see it at all in the book itself. Dumbledore being gay and in love with Grindelwald didn't surprise me (sort of like a *blink* "oh yeah" moment), but even after re-reading the chapters, I just see an intense 2-month friendship, or something like what Ron and Harry have. Where did other people see something more implied? Cause if that's canon subtext then my GOD, how many other subtexty things were done on purpose? I guess most people meant it in a *winkwink* kind of way, but honestly, only reading the book, there's nothing that really says, "MORE THAN JUST FRIENDS, YOU GUYS." What the hell is wrong with me, my slash goggles are broken! Well, I guess it would be just a logical leap to explain how Dumbledore was completely blinded towards his friend, like Jo said.
5. Jo says Grindelwald was just as dazzled (lol) by Dumbledore as he was by him, and must have figured world domination would go a lot smoother if they were a team. And he certainly must have wanted to keep someone as powerful as Dumbledore as an ally than an enemy. And those are very pragmatic reasons to keep Dumbledore with him, but was there anything else? I think Grindelwald at least enjoyed his company but did he care about him? Before the stuff with Aberforth happened, was he planning to rule together, spend his life with Dumbledore? Or was he planning to keep on using him and then dump him when their plan succeeded and he didn't want to share the power? Of course, it's obvious what I'd want the answer to be (hint: the sappier one), but this is all just fanon interpretation. I doubt even Jo knows the answer. The way she talked about Grindelwald up there sounded like she hadn't completely figured it out yet either.
6. Why exactly did Grindelwald run when Ariana died? I think it's obvious it was a reaction out of fear and panic. That was the first death caused by him. After all, he didn't actually kill anyone at Durmstrang, though I'm sure he came close. Maybe he freaked out when faced with a real death, certainly a death he hadn't meant to cause. But I think that's just part of it. Aberforth said he didn't want to be connected to the death, the "first victim for the greater good." But Ariana's death could've been and was written off as an accident to the general public, so I doubt he was afraid of being sentenced for it. So maybe he also feared Albus's reaction! After this, he absolutely lost Albus's trust. First, crucio-ing Aberforth, then attacking both brothers in the three-way duel, Ariana's death would've been the last nail in their relationship. He didn't want to face him, and so ran before Albus could react! ohoho *adjusts shipper glasses*
7. Now who's worse, Grindelwald or Voldemort? Both megalomaniacs aiming to rule the wizarding world with a prejudice against muggles. But while Voldemort wanted to kill all muggles, Grindelwald wanted to enslave all muggles. Not much of a difference. Well, at least Grindelwald didn't seem to hold anything against muggleborns. To him, if you had magic, that meant automatic superiority, an actual "magic is might". It was only ignorant muggles he seemed to fear. With Voldemort, having any muggle blood in you meant you were tainted, no matter what. Also, I don't think Nurmengard had dementors at least. Of course, it probably had some kind of horrible torture or hard labor instead.
later: Okay, reading it again, there's actually nothing about how he felt about muggleborns period, so who knows how he would've treated them. They could've been second-class citizens or maybe they would've been taken at infancy like Jedi and given to a wizarding family or orphanage.
/end worddump
later: wait, were Grindelwald and Aberforth the same age?? Aberforth must have been 2 years younger than Albus if he started at Hogwarts when Albus was in third year.
Wait, if Grindelwald's birthday was in the summer, he might have been in his 6th year when he was expelled. Otherwise, he would've been in 5th year like Aberforthaksdjskl;hfasOH GOD